I'm 38 and I Can't Support Myself Anymore

> If your worth is not determined by your productivity, then what remains of you underneath it all?

Everything else. You are worth so much more than your productivity.

I'm glad I never got sucked into the protestant work ethic, since defining yourself based on your labour and the value you generate from that sounds woefully narrow-minded (this doesn't feel like quite the right word, but close enough).

It's probably helpful to at least expand 'productivity' to something beyond just what is useful for your work. Reading the classics is productive because it's enjoyable, even though it doesn't help with your work. Ditto spending time with friends and whatever else that doesn't have anything to do with work.

I hope we figure out what to do about disabilities, since the current status quo is inhumane in large parts of the world (and even in places with good benefits systems, getting that support isn't trivial).

I was raised as a Buddhist and in Buddhism it says that the biggest wealth you can have in your life is good health. Most of us take it for granted, that how lucky we are to born without a disability and can function doing daily tasks like taking a shower, going to the toilet without the help of someone else. I cannot imagine how difficult life would be with a disability and even thinking about it makes me anxious

At some point many years ago I read that the family, not the individual, is the building block of society. It might have been Chesterton or Friedman as I read a lot of both when I was young. It certainly is a lot easier to hold the line when you have a squad of half a dozen to a dozen with you (wife/husband/children/brothers/sisters/uncles etc). If the state is there, then you are fortunate, but I wouldn't want to count on it myself.

The idea that "hard work, discipline, frugality" are Calvinist and Protestant inventions may be the most preposterous thing I've read today. As if the rest of the world or previous eras valued self-indulgence and wasteful lavishness.

Or that an unproductive member of society wasn't always scorned or at least viewed negatively by those having to produce.

> Everytime you meet someone new and they ask “What do you do?” they’re not asking about your passions, hobbies, or the mundane human tasks that take up most of your time; but how you make money, how you turn yourself into income.

1. That's your assumption. They could really ask out of interest. They couldn't care less if that's your main source of income.

2. In some cultures this question will never be asked.

3. If they do ask and judge; what does that matter? If you dislike such personalities, avoid them.

> I’m 38 years old and I just had to ask my mom if I could borrow money [...] potentially spending the next 50 years without stable income

Without stable income it might be more like 20 years. (I wish you personally a long and bountiful life!)

I'm in a similar boat. As a 3rd child in a somewhat poor family, I do not have any inheritance and actually need to help my mom financially (though it's not a burden). My wife is also from a rural area and her inheritance is barely worth 5 (hypothetical) figures. We never got or will get anything given to us for free. We are in our 40s and we completely gave up on having children (though it was not overall a financially-motivated choice) or property (this one certainly is). Live day to day while I can work, and die without regrets when I cannot anymore. Thanks to AI that happens probably sooner than later.

If you read this article and feel worried about your financial situation if you become disabled, you might look into long-term disability insurance (LTD).

It's a policy where, if you become disabled to the point where you can't work, it pays out $X per month, every year until you're 65. And if you're partly disabled and have to cut back your hours, some policies compensate you for those lost wages.

These LTD policies are expensive, but they DO give you peace of mind about this possibility.

It's simple, what is written here should be part of basic education for every human being/worker.

For all who mis-interprent the post and focus only on the anti capitalistic view of it, don't worry your body will tell you soon!

Keep an eye for the signals, gut and digestive issues, back stuck and oain, sleeping problems, light sensitivity and irritability. When this will start remember that the problem is probably your work or your working environment not you! And you should react to it!

This article should be eye opening, and support for disabilities should be always there. The abandonment of human beings is the biggest failure of societes.

> Much of modern Western culture, particularly in the United States, was shaped by what sociologist Max Weber called the Protestant work ethic: the belief that hard work, discipline, frugality, and productivity were signs of virtue.

I hail from a culture that's decidedly Catholic, but at the same time shares this mindset.

To me it has more to do with farming and the culture around it.

On a farm you have to earn your keep and there's no space for "freeloaders". You work all day, every day and don't complain.

Attitudes are very different in places where there was a significant urban class in the renaissance era already.

"But I am trying to believe there is more to a human life than how efficiently it converts energy into labor."

There absolutely is. Labor can be fullfilling and give joy, but for most people it is just an easy tool on how to survive and hopefully have some comfort as well. Do not ever feel ashamed of your labor and even more, do not ever feel ashamed of not doing labor if you don't want to. You have one life in this universe. Make it a nice one.

My situation is similar. I'm exhausted from life, and I don't even have a disability I got scammed and lost all the money I had saved up. AI reduced my workload, and because of the war, factory expansions were canceled, so for a while I had no work at all.

I've worked 96-hour weeks for six months at a time. Even working nonstop, I can't save any money. I don't have enough to buy a house, and I'm exhausted. I've done so many different kinds of work, but no matter how much I work, the money just doesn't accumulate. It's not that I haven't tried.

Good jobs are only in big cities, and to live in a big city, you have to pay rent. If I pay rent, my salary doesn't accumulate. I can't even think about getting married.

I really gave it my all, but I don't know anymore. Why is my life like this? By the time I paid off my student loans, I was already in my mid-30s, and I still can't even think about marriage.

I just work and try hard, but the money doesn't add up. It feels like my life has gone wrong. I used to laugh at people who gambled or traded coins, but now I feel like a fool for working so diligently

I've felt worthless for a long time. Sucked at school, suck at university, jobless. But something about the things I do has given me comfort. Trying to make music, trying to draw. And just doing the things another version of me would look at and think "that's nice"

I've also been a social outcast for a while now. But putting my creative works out there makes me feel like I'm building the tools to appreciate myself and be appreciated by others. And knowing I can be appreciated, even if I'm not, is enough to give me a sense of self worth.

We could provide food for the poor and disabled who lack or are not using family support with a tiny fraction of our industrial output. We wouldn’t even notice this expenditure, let alone whine about it. But what we are providing is actually “Healthcare. Specialists. Medications. Supplements. Mobility aids. Physical therapy. Accessible housing. Delivery fees when you cannot physically shop for yourself. Ride shares when public transportation is inaccessible. Caregiving.” and this turns out to be enough effort to make society groan and strain.

It’s good that our society is doing this, and we could do better! but why do we have to characterize this existing herculean effort as “fundamentally hostile to bodies that cannot produce consistently”

> It’s there every time you meet someone new and one of their first questions is, “What do you do?” They’re not asking about your passions, your hobbies, or the mundane human tasks that take up most of your time. They’re asking how you make money. How you turn yourself into income.

For the longest time whenever I'd meet someone at a party I would ask "so, what do you spend your time on?" because I specifically didn't want to box them into asking how they make money. I wanted to hear about their passions or hobbies or even the mundane tasks.

Instead, pretty much everyone told me about their jobs.

hEDS and POTS, which is what the author claims to suffer from, are not good reasons for a disability. hEDS is responsive to particular supplements, especially methylfolate, etc., so build up your stack. For me, POTS was caused by a PPI drug, and eventually remedied upon discontinuation of the drug in combination with daily exercise. Afaik, there is no genetic basis for POTS, and if it there were one, it would be unlikely to be the cause. As I keep telling myself, choosing inaction is a personal choice.

> Earn slightly too much, and vital support disappears

My reading of this is that the threshhold for the USA government to withdraw financial (and other?) support for disabled people is too low, is that right?

I know once I'm injured I will be homeless again. I don't have a support system of any kind.

Worth is subjective. You are worth something to someone regardless of your job. If you have a small child are their whole world. Same with your parents. Trying to garner sympathy and have strangers assign worth to you is pointless - because strangers don't value anyone around them for the simple fact that they don't interact with them.

Whether you agree or not - productivity is important. If there are more people that need support than those that can 'produce' the system does not work.

I didn’t have to read to the bottom to notice the autism. I feel that’s the biggest “disability” there.

If you can write so many posts, you can get an office job or get paid for writing.

The current climate does seem quite unforgiving for anyone that didn’t make good choices along the way. Even a sub optimal career choice or something has rough outcomes.

> It’s there every time you meet someone new and one of their first questions is, “What do you do?” They’re not asking about your passions, your hobbies, or the mundane human tasks that take up most of your time. They’re asking how you make money. How you turn yourself into income.

I find this to very much be an American thing. In (Continental) Europe you don't get asked this until later (if at all). It doesn't define you like it does in the US.

I think part of the lie is that we live for and unto ourselves. We instinctively know it's not true, yet for much of our lives we live as if it is. Until one day we find out what we knew all along.

When you suddenly become unable to "give anything" to others and become the one who must be given to, you feel a disconcerting sense of loss and powerlessness.

I don't think it really has anything to do with capitalism.

This post reminds me of the book recommendation shared on Facebook.

The Sound of a Wild Snail Eating by Elisabeth Tova Bailey

Bedridden and suffering from a neurological disorder, the author recounts the profound effect on her life caused by a gift of a snail in a potted plant and shares the lessons learned from her new companion about her the meaning of her life and the life of the small creature.

I face same situation. I lost my job six months ago. My previous boss thought he can use codex generate everything.

Not everyone needs to be productive, those of us that are… are here to support. My brother was a cto and got one shotted by a prescribed weed + aderall in CA combo and lack of sleep (schizophrenia genetics in our family line). He is homeless and occasionally lives with us.

Reducing your worth to mere productivity is myopic. Your worth is what you bring others, and while for some people it can include literal production for others it doesn’t have to. There’s wisdom, emotional support, and many other things.

> Capitalism has defined ‘health’ itself as a capacity to submit oneself to labor

People keep mindlessly saying this but I have never seen evidence for it. Before money was ever invented the idea was already there that if you're healthy you can sustain yourself. All 'capitalism' did was saying "and most people nowadays perform abstract services in trade for an abstraction of a promise of a pinky swear saying "if you trade this pinky swear to me you'll get some food".

It's not 'economic systems that are fundamentally hostile to bodies that cannot produce consistently', it's a fundamental reality of life. Either you are capable of getting enough food for you and your family, either directly by farming, gathering or hunting, or you are not.

I think what gets lost when we value productivity above everything is community and humanity.

At the end of the day, I just want to be around people who care, having a good time together. Nothing seems worth doing if it doesn't eventually get you that.

I've always seen my "excess productivity" as something to spend building a society where people actually commune together, and where we have each other's backs.

I don't want to walk through a city and see people suffering or living on the street. I never assumed the solution was to hide them so productive people don't have to look at them. I assumed it was to support people well enough that we don't have this problem.

You never know when you'll be the next one to have bad luck.

I bristle a bit when it comes to discussing productivity an an ill that is _specific_ to capitalism. It's certainly an ill of capitalism as well, but I don't know many other systems where productivity is not valued and lack of productivity does not come with downsides.

As another commenter has pointed out, the surest ally in this case is family. Not all families are tight, but families are largely the ones who will take care of the indigent in a compassionate, long-term way.

The productivity topic is interesting. From my view, it really is _people_ that require you to be useful. Different social or political systems can be better or worse about this, but all of them are sort of playing with the same base human behavior.

Try being the one who constantly needs help from your friend. That friend will leave eventually. And they'll leave in an emotional sense. They'll sort of think less of you, or be a bit disgusted.

Try getting a woman to be sexually attracted to you if you constantly need her help or support. Outside of a few interesting fetishists, you're out of luck.

You don't even need to imagine the workplace scenario -- you already know how that works.

But picture a pre-industrial, barter economy. How well would you do when you're not able to contribute? There is history of people caring for the old, infirm, and indigent ... but remember that when you go that far back you're talking about kin-groups. You're taking care of your grandfather, or your great uncle. Not some random guy you happened upon.

The toxic wellness thing is real.

It’s always there in the subtext of a lot of alt-med and the sort of pure-eating wellness stuff, that if it doesn’t work then you’re just not trying hard enough and your mindset is wrong. Still got cancer? Well clearly you didn’t juice, enema and positive-think enough! That’s the flipside of every “you can heal yourself!” assertion.

I feel very sorry for this person, as much as I aspire to be out of work one day, I aspire to be out of work on my terms and with enough financial resource to support myself, and I fully expect to still be able to support myself. This is very different from having to face the fact you can’t, and adjust to that fact and then struggle like hell just to survive on barely adequate provision.

Tech people in particular seem to see themselves (ourselves…) as capable, independent and entirely autonomous beings. Being forced to reframe your whole existence must be very tough.

The author lays most of this at the feet of capitalism, and I agree that the system has excesses that have contributed to the atomization of society, which can cause people to slip through the cracks, but...has any other system been obviously _better_ at supporting those with disabilities? Did feudalism or communism do this better?

(I think about the "worst system, except for all the other systems" quote often)

> If your worth is not determined by your productivity, then what remains of you underneath it all?

Worth and productivity are synonyms in direction, wouldn't a better phrase not track either? It's difficult to answer anything other than naught without some mental gymnastics because the words themselves are implicit.

How about happiness? That is one human quality that is not directly tied to any of worth, value or productivity.

At 53, and someone whose life significantly imploded three years ago (two years before an autism and autistic burnout diagnosis), I'm so fucking grateful that this made it to HN. It needs to be the top post in LinkedIn and forever pinned at the top of everyone's feeds, too.

The author blames capitalism and religion while greatly indulging in his pride, I think.

It is so much beneath him to ask for help from others, he’d rather change the world so that he doesn’t have to ask — instead of expressing some humility.

I also have a lot of pride in myself, and I feel deeply for the author. However it looks to me that he’a banging on the wrong door, and instead of waiting for all the people in the world to change a lot, he could change himself a little.

I'd love to read this. A shame it's on Substack.

“As though my body’s inability to keep pace with capitalism says something fundamental about who I am.”

What would his body’s inability to keep pace say under socialism or something else? In any case, he is unable to provide for himself and must rely on others. In the case of capitalism, there is less contribution from the general public and more from personal sources ( I.e. his mother ).

Thinking altruistically, it’s more fair to share the burden across all society. But that introduces a danger— bureaucracies lack the accountability that private sources automatically provide. That system will be less efficient and more costly to run, it’s a matter of degree.

It’s a hard problem. Perhaps over time, as we become more and more prosperous, the cost of the inefficiency will be less relevant and we’ll default to the more balanced version.

sounds like you need to get a job and stop spending so much.