At the end of the day I've already stated my opinion here and I don't really have much else to say as I'm just repeating myself. I was never defending the specific claims (true or otherwise) and was defending the need to eliminate waste even if the elimination are small-potato line items.
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What need is there? What small-potato line items are wasteful?
Well I can go dig up a few examples - and then what? Are you suggesting that the government doesn't waste money on small line items?
Then we can have a discussion about how to fix it. You can’t even start with a discussion about fixes until you have nailed down the exact problem… obviously. It would help immensely to find some factually valid examples.
If we had congress enact a law to ban studying goat yoga with federal funds, what would we achieve? We would have spent several million dollars to battle a problem that does not exist. We would waste money.
FWIW your language about “waste” is coming off as being pretty naive. Your conception of the problem is too vague to be actionable. That’s why we need real examples. As I mentioned above, you seem to be focused purely on spending while completely ignoring any ROI.
You’re also failing to prioritize, as many people here are trying to point out. Fixing the small line items before the big ones would be a massive waste of tax dollars. We can’t fix the small ones until we fix the big ones.
The list Musk & @bilsbie forwarded is not actually a list of waste in the sense you’re talking about, it’s a politically motivated statement about our country’s goals. The actual intent behind that list and the many many such lists started by Proxmire and amplified by Fox News and Republicans over the years is to cut science funding. They have said so explicitly. It’s trying to sow public mistrust, and convey the idea that we need different goals, not that certain line items are inefficient.
It seems to be working, you clearly don’t trust that funds are scrutinized properly. But do you actually know how the funds are allocated, and what processes currently exist to minimize and prevent waste?
> Then we can have a discussion about how to fix it.
Ok but I am not trying, nor have I given that impression, to find individual examples of government waste and specifically fix those.
As I’m repeating myself yet again… government waste exists, sometimes that waste is relatively small dollar line items, and when we find such waste we should eliminate it. That’s it. I already provided examples where folks were disagreeing with my comments about fixing small line items. The specific item isn’t relevant or of interest to me in the context of this conversation.
You can read the words I’ve written here and say yes Eric you are right (I am, of course), or you can say that the line items are too small to matter or don’t exist. That’s the only two options. That’s what any conversation about this topic involving me in this thread is about.
> You’re also failing to prioritize, as many people here are trying to point out. Fixing the small line items before the big ones would be a massive waste of tax dollars. We can’t fix the small ones until we fix the big ones.
Not every government agency handles the big ticket spend. The FDA can eliminate waste within its organization while Social Security or the DoD is reformed or whatever. Not a single tax dollar is “wasted”.
You can then extrapolate this to within agencies or Congress or the Executive itself. Do you work for a company? I bet they cut costs for projects big and small.
> nor have I given that impression, to find individual examples of government waste and specifically fix those
Yes, you did. You gave that impression when you said OP was right to point out the list of specific items.
People weren’t disagreeing that small items exist, they were pointing out that worrying about them doesn’t fix very much waste, which is true. So they were also right.
If you aren’t going to come up with true examples, and you aren’t interested in what’s true, what’s broken or how to actually fix the problem, what value is your opinion, right or wrong? If you don’t care what’s true, then why should anyone else care if you’re right about something? And why would I think you’re right when you refuse to bring any actual evidence?
I’m trying to invite you to do more than repeat yourself, and provide some more thoughtful ideas on how to improve government efficiency, and how to evaluate inefficiency. I do work for a company, and my company wastes some money. All companies do. As others pointed out, it’s not possible to avoid some amount of “waste”. This is why it’s important to understand the waste. Without understanding, you have nothing and can’t fix it.
They’re not right though because “don’t need to worry about them” doesn’t make sense. What do you mean worry? That sounds like “we don’t need to fix small line-item waste” which I simply reject for being dumb. If I make half a million/year and I have a $5 subscription I don’t “not worry about it” if it’s a waste of money. I cancel it. There is no major difference when that is scaled up to organizations besides lack of clear recognition of waste and dollar amounts.
> you aren’t going to come up with true examples, and you aren’t interested in what’s true, what’s broken or how to actually fix the problem, what value is your opinion, right or wrong? If you don’t care what’s true, then why should anyone else care if you’re right about something? And why would I think you’re right when you refuse to bring any actual evidence?
I’ve already explained this. I don’t have anything else to say. You’ll just have to accept what I wrote and stop talking about it, or make up arguments for yourself to debate with yourself as you are doing now.
I think you’ve made incorrect assumptions, you’re wrong about some things here. Nobody said small waste should not be fixed, they said it wouldn’t move the needle.
“We should stop waste” is a tautology. Nobody here has disagreed with that, and I don’t think you understand that yet. The only thing that matters is what the waste actually is, whether everyone agrees it’s waste, and what to do to fix it.
I honestly hoped for a more substantive discussion, and some real examples, but as you wish, I’m fine stopping here, even though giving up turns this conversation into somewhat of a waste.