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by MrBuddyCasino·12y ago·view on hn ↗
To quote Ted Dziuba:

"Anyone who ever told you that swear words have no place in technical discussion is right. They're right, and sadly, they're part of the problem because they miss the point. The sterile word placement that's supposed to support an argument makes any true motivation indistinguishable from all the hired bullshit.

[...]

However, when someone starts swearing in technical discussion, showing emotion, that's a strong indicator that I'm about to receive wisdom. Wisdom is earned the hard way, and it is permanent, not like some statistically shaky performance benchmark that we'll all forget about next week."

I feel the same - I'd rather have people feeling passionate about their work and use swear words, than work with polite non-personalities that don't give a fuck.

2 comments
Swearing isn't required for passion. Martin Luthor King didn't have an (expletive of choice) dream, he just had a dream. There are plenty of people who care about their work and manage to express that without swearing. Similarly there are plenty of people who swear about stuff who may well be committed but it's highly questionable about what they're committed to and whether it's to the benefit of the project / team.

If someone does swear (and as it goes, I'm fine with swearing for emphasis and swear way more than I feel I should) they need to be aware that some people find it offensive and that if they don't moderate their behaviour it may be taken very personally which can result in barriers between colleagues and / or low morale.

You can choose to say that that's the person reacting's problem but if you do so you need to be aware of the price that comes with (that they're working in an environment with which they're not completely comfortable which is unlikely to get the best out of them). The alternative is that the swearer moderates themselves (with which they in turn may not be comfortable).

Obviously the better you know your colleagues the more leeway you have. If you've built up trust and togetherness overtime you can get away with anything but even then you need to consider what happens when new people join the team.

But ultimately this is about people and where it's about people there are no absolutes - what works for one group will be kryptonite for another.

Theo has a twenty year record of being a brash, non-calm[1] asshole. The pesky problem is that he has this very bad habit of being right, especially when he is angry, brash and profane. So yes, he may indeed may need to enhance his calm, but at the same time, other software developers need to realize that the best course of action in avoiding his ire is to not write software that sucks.

[1] http://www.theos.com/dispute.html

It's the Steve Jobs conundrum - where someone is an asshole but clearly also very talented.

For me two thoughts come out of this:

1) Yes they've been productive the way they work, but have they been more or less productive than if they'd been just as right but a little less confrontational?

Research generally doesn't show confrontation to be the most productive approach for most people. Is their style productive, or is it unproductive but they get away with it because they're so good that people will put up with it?

You say that the best course of action if you want to avoid Theo's ire is not to write bad code, but how many people have taken another approach? The one that springs to mind is not working with him and how much talent does the project miss out on because people just steer clear? I know plenty of very smart programmers who simply don't go near projects where the culture and personalities are like that. Bad behaviour towards others (even when you're right) limits the available pool of skills.

2) I can live with the arsehole geniuses but others who aren't as able often use the likes of Jobs or Theo to justify their own poor, destructive behaviour. For me at least, that doesn't work - if you're going to be as big a dick but you're not as good as them you're basically just a dick and if the day eventually arrives when the IT industry doesn't have a massive skills shortage, those people will cease to be tolerated.

I absolutely depend on some swearing to draw a clear line between the factual presentation and everything else. I think this is why beer:30 and stepping away from the office with coworkers is important.

People matter. The way software makes them feel matters. Code smell and related concerns are best conveyed in profoundly human ways. Fuck it. Say it like you mean it.