The Model 3 has potential to shift the whole market if they can provide a practical electric family car for the average people living in suburban areas.
If you just mean the silly way Americans use SUV's (to simply be taller than the other cars on the road) then maybe it is a decent form factor.
I used to share your disdain for SUVs until I dated someone who drove one. They can be really useful for carrying cargo and the smaller ones get decent fuel economy.
That said, I think a lot of SUV buyers are motivated by fear. They feel that collisions are inevitable so they want to drive a big armored box. They want 4WD even here in the Southern USA where it snows 2 days per year. I think a lot of them have kids and it's one more part of the protective worrying parent mentality.
Personally I can't stand the handling of tall vehicles.
You can get by with a smaller car, but the SUV form factor provides lots of capability, which is nice to have whenever you want it.
I've got one sedan (an Accord) and an SUV (a Pilot), both have their place.
Most SUVs are driven by soccer moms taking their kids to school. That's the "form factor" I intended in GP.
If we would be talking about an off road vehicle, I'd agree with you.
The reaction to this comment is really depressing. Obviously exDM69 means 'perfect' in a certain context. IE, does being electric make an SUV better at being an SUV and doing the things that the people who own SUVs, own them for. The comments and voting can't help but be all about how people feel about SUVs in general.
Americans don't really buy SUVs for any rational reason, there was just a period of very intense propaganda directed at creating the idea that they needed SUVs as an attempt by the auto industry to get around US government safety and efficiency regulations from which "light trucks", which SUVs were carefully designed to qualify as, were exempted (Minivans where an earlier focus of the same PR effort, for the same reason.)
("Crossovers" are basically what happened when the original motivation was gone but the industry had already created the demand, so they went back to making passenger autos that weren't built on truck frames, but still had to make them styled like SUVs to sell in the market conditions their own intense marketing efforts had created -- since that was cheaper than doing another marketing blitz to get people to stop wanting things that look like SUVs.)
Everyone I know who owns an SUV has multiple children. I have four children, and with that a minivan and an SUV. Kids come with a lot of accessories, especially with modern safety requirements of car seats and so on.
It is really unfortunate that every discussion about SUVs turns into some sort of oddball moralizing (especially bizarre when they're contrast with minivans, also 5000lb+ vehicles with largely the same fuel economy). SUVs actually have a very practical purpose. They of course use more fuel, generally, though on the flip side that awareness of fuel makes me less likely to take flippant drives (all things tend to equalize, generally).
I can see how it would be a good alternative to a minivan, though. So maybe they should call it a "crossover" minivan? (I suppose calling it a minivan wouldn't be as attractive as SUV.)
heavy so the big battery pack will not hurt so much in the weight budget.
Wrong! Very wrong!More initial weight means more batteries needed in the first places, which means more weight and even more batteries because of that.
Reducing weight on electric cars is really beneficial:
Less weight => less batteries => less weight => less batteries...
Aerodynamics seem to be a more critical factor for electric vehicles. You want the vehicle to be able to cruise while using as little energy as possible, and weight doesn't matter as much for maintaining speed.
It's the same reason that most modern trains are electric or diesel-electric rather than pure diesel.
Many aircraft tow tractors are also electric these days, and they haul some fairly heavy loads.
The energy required to maintain a given speed is almost independent of weight. Most energy loss at speed is from wind resistance. Rolling resistance will be affected some by weight, but it's not the dominant factor at speed.
I actually don't think the target audience is families living in suburban areas. That's not the target audience of the BMW 3 series or Benz C class. I think their target audience is young professionals who can't afford a car that quickly costs over $100k but care about driving a practical, electric, professional car.
Electric vehicles are excellent for towing, I've seen lots of places use normal electric golf carts to tow huge boats, it's all about torque.
Don't agree. SUV has big wind drag (not sure if that is the right word for it) which reducing efficiency in gas powered vehicles. I can't imagine that it isn't the same effect in electric powered. (I mean that's obvious, right or am I missing something?)
In terms of market, it can be the most successful vehicle for the American market.
These are two separate things.
I never understood this. I used to drive a Land Rover Discovery 3, which is a SUV. And then I had a rental Open(or Vauxhall, for UK folk) Insignia for two weeks - your typical 5 door sedan, a typical "car" which does not invoke hate in most people. And I could not possibly understand how such a "large" car, with footprint as large as my Land Rover, could be so small inside! It took as much space on the road as my "horrid waste of space" Land Rover, yet it could only take 5 people instead of 7, and probably half the luggage. But if you put these two next two each other, you would be a lot more quickly criticized for driving the SUV, purely because it's an SUV. But both cars had nearly identical length and width - so how is the SUV taking more space? If anything, the Insignia was half as practical as the land rover.
One reason I haven't been all that impressed with the S is because even as large as it is its only 250 or so miles per charge. Some of the elements in its design are really good, but battery storage isn't prime time when it takes the majority of the car to get so little range.
Call me when the tech will take a Focus/Leaf sized EV near 300 miles for around 30k, then I will listen. Right now the only good bet is a range extender, fortunately the two big ones; i3 and Leaf, are affordable by a great many more drivers.
The Model S is exceptional in that you can pay a ton of money and get an electric car with a very respectable range. But that doesn't really scale down when - like the article points out - most of the cost is in the battery.
I think you're right to be at least a little skeptical of the Model 3. For one, it seems like something of a stretch to say that they'll be on-the-market in 3.5 years with a vehicle that will feature batteries from a factory that hasn't even found a site yet.
That said, I imagine that the Leaf will have a better range in 2017 as well. It seems clear at this point that better battery tech is the final hurdle for electric vehicles. It doesn't seem completely implausible that with a lot of resources thrown at the problem, they'll be able to lower the cost of increasing the energy capacity of batteries in the next few years.
They're going after the guy who wants a 3 series with instant torque. Range is a secondary consideration as long as it gets over 200.
The Model3 is their chance to break out of the luxury market and the Leaf is going to squeeze them really hard from the low end.
I think at the point, the main thing setting them apart is the Supercharger network. The financial viability of that endeavor is a bit unknown.. but if it translates into significant car sales, then it may pay off.
Tesla builds their own powertrains and battery management systems, which are good enough that other automakers license or purchase these components from them.
I also believe that Tesla has efficiency advantages due to the high degree of automation they've built into their factories, as well as the lack of dealership markups. Tesla's profit margin on the Model S is excellent compared to many other automakers, which leads me to believe that they will also be able to offer more for less with the Model 3.
It's the guy who won't buy a car with a > 6 second 0-60 time. The guy who wants to step on it and be put in the back of their seat but for whom 50-60k is a little bit too much to spend. They can't afford an M3 but want an M3 performance so they buy a 335, a G37 / Q50, or an IS350. I've personally discounted the IS250 because the acceleration is too slow for me.
If the Model 3 gets 5.3 0-60 or better, it's a no-brainer.
3 also happens to be the '1337' slang variant of E.
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I snagged a 40kwh S before they discontinued it. Had it for a year, never needed to charge anywhere but my home. I get about 135 miles on a charge and it has been more then enough for commutes around the metro.
Barclays Capital – Question about $35,000 price point – before or after tax credits?
Deepak Ahuja (CFO): The $35,000 does not assume that the $7,500 federal tax credit is no longer available, but that the 35,000 Tesla Gen 3 pricing is without any subsidy.
Elon Musk: Helpful to have credits, but Tesla is not counting on them.
The tax credit applies for the first 250,000 (domestic?) units per manufacturer though, so if you pre-order a Model 三 you might be able to get it for $27,500.
Citation? You might be right, but I thought I read that 35k was before the tax credit.
For that matter, I believe the current EV tax credit is only available for the first X number of EVs produced by a given manufacturer. It's possible the same credit won't be available anymore by the time the 3 comes out. Or on the other hand, there have been talks of raising the credit to 10k and making it permanent. Hard to know what will happen in the next few years.