▲ 256 points
back
70 comments
I'm the guy who made this video, so I want adress some questions from this thread. Really interesting discussion by the way, I'm happy so many people take an interest in this film!
Not really family/adoption:
To be honest, the whole history of the Houshi family is kind of a mistery. There was no real documentation in paper back then. No photos, and paintings or such were only for rich people. Yet, the whole town kinda grew around the hot springs and this one hotel in particular. So the history of the hotel and the family is very much connected with the history of the town. That's also where the proof for the Guinness Bureau came from. They wouldn't just accept them saying "yea, we old."
What changed in 2011: An even older hotel submitted their application.
Also: as far as I found out, that older hotel is not a straight "same-family" business, or at least not anymore. I'm a bit sceptical of that posted source below. There's an association for family businesses older than 200 years AND still running, and that hotel is not part of that, Houshi is.
The daughters motivation: I shot this film over the course of six days, in April and in June. When I was doing the interviews in April, the daughter didn't actually know that her father decided that she should take over. I was the one who told her during the interview (assuming then she was aware of it of course). She officially started in May, and when I came back in June, she was much more adjusted. She's actually doing pretty well. There's also a second son, even working in the hotel, longer than the daughter. but according to the father, he's not smart enough to manage the inn. The daughter is actually much stronger and smarter than she thinks she is. That's why the father chose her. In 1,300 years, no woman was the official owner of the inn. However, they were allowed to be "temporary owners" until the son came of age or someone was adopted. Yet, the father considers giving the daughter now the title of Zengoro. She would be the first woman in 1,300 years to wear that title. But it's not final yet. I consider going back there in a couple of years to see what's changed.
The first born son gets trained from day one to become the owner. The daughter wasn't properly prepared. Yet, she loves her family dearly and is caught between her love, obligation and duty. For someone carrying the weight of 1,300 years and 46 generations, she is doing remarkably well.
Thanks for the additional info, be great to see those on the page as I had the exact same questions.
Really like the movie - amazing photography, especially how the hot springs became like their own character through the sublime water shots.
I'd be really curious to hear more about how the hotel has changed over time and endured. I'd also be very interested to hear more about the daughter taking over as this is a microcosm of a lot of tradition bending taking place in the country.
I want to write an extended story about the whole thing and offer that to several media along with the video, just like I did previously with another short doc from Japan. So I kinda can't and won't give everything away under the video.
However, I try to answer questions or join a discussion when I can. This thread in particular seemed very interesting, whereas other comments elsewhere don't really make me join the discussion.
There's only so much you can tell with a short video on the internet. Everything can only be a glimpse into a 1,300 year old legacy, and into the mentality of three humans behind it.
Thank you for this video. It's extraordinary to contemplate a family business in operation for 13 centuries, and the personal sacrifices that must have been, and are still being made across that time to keep it going.
tell me about it... after the interviews, which were the first things I shot, I realized the tremendous weight of the millenia. The work on "Houshi" really brought me to my mental and physical limitations. I shot for hours everyday, without a break, because I tried so hard to capture everything. I was so very moved by their story and felt the need to tell the story in the best and most powerful way possible.
I was looking for a great hot-spring retreat for my vacation to Japan.
I have to say it's looks awesome and I'm really tempted to just go to this place.
it was the best ryokan experience I ever had, albeit even more "japanese" than I expected. For example, every room has a personal staff, that does everything for you. I had dinner in my room, which he brought to me, and while eating he was just sitting there, making sure I got everything I needed. It felt a bit awkward, but it's their idea of service. And I guess if you don't stay there just by yourself, it's easier to ignore them. And the food was among the best I ever tasted.
Where can I see more of your work?
thanks for the interest :) on my vimeo page, but there's only one other story like it, that I've done so far:
I got some other short docs, but most of them only in German and not on the level of Houshi. Afterall, I am a student and still learning.
I was living in Japan September 2013 to September 2014 and I shot four films like this during that time. Two are done, two more are still being edited.
Not actually the same family, typically the new owners will "adopt" a son, who is just the highest ranking manager: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Japanese_adult_adoption
If I recall correctly, the grandfather of the current Zengoro was adopted. So since then, it's pretty much straight.
He showed me the pictures of his family. To his grandmother, who was "originally" Houshi, if you will, but not his biological grandmother, he refers to as "my grandma".
Houshi have a different understanding of family than we do. For them, "family" and "business" are the same thing. For example, the daughter never calls her parents by mom and dad while in the hotel, but by their titles (Okami and President)
[edit: got a bit confused who did what with grandma]
I'd class adoption as the same family.
The title is correct because the title doesn't say "same bloodline for 1,300 years".
If you are arguing otherwise, feel free to tell all the adopted people out there that they really are not part of their respective families, and those who adopted others that the people they've adopted are just strangers in their homes.
Adopted and raised by those parents? Sure, same family.
"Adopted" when you're 40 and happen to be their top manager? Not so much.
The Roman emperors used to adopt the next chosen emperor and pass him the family name "Caesar", as did Julius Caesar, probably without trying to create a tradition, with Octavius.
No -- this was done by the 'Five Good Emperors' (Nerva, Trajan, Hadrian, Pious, Aurelius) and done more out of the lack of suitable male Heirs than of a notion to go outside the blood line. The Five Good Emperors ends to Aurelius, who -- coincidentally enough -- was the first to name his son as Heir. His son was Commodus, and was (by the account of contemporaneous, biased sources) a bad emperor -- although there is thought that many of his evils were embellished by detractor historians.
Otherwise, the title of Imperator/Augustus went to male blood heirs or usurping Generals (in one case, to a wealthy man who bought off the Praetorian Guard).
Only if there was no son to inherit the throne.
There's an interesting HN touch in that article:
"Some males are now joining dating sites specifically made for men looking to become Mukoyōshi, and be adopted by families who need a male successor for their businesses."
Are they really "dating" sites if the purpose is just to get adopted as a male successor?
How is that not actually the same family?
I don't think anyone was arguing that adopted children are any less meaningful than biological children, but if a 60 year old business owner adopts a 40 year old manager who works at his company that's really not the same thing.
It is the same family, though it would be more amazing if they adopted and raised younger kids kids without consideration for whether they would inherit the business or not, and still manage to keep the business in the family for 1300 years.
But the act of passing the business down to non-blood related adults for 1300 years without going belly up is amazing.
AS a father of three adopted children I ask the same. Adoption is family even if they look different then your own skin they are family.
Very interesting.
I always wondered what would be morally just position on such long standing establishments when it comes to inheritance of responsibility.
On the one hand kids of such family shouldn't be tied to the family business if they don't find it fulfilling. On the other hand if they won't continue the line traditions might die and with them such old an interesting places as this one or any other.
But as datamatt writes, I guess adult adoption does help with that. If kids in such family feel that they are not up to the task, their parents can adopt a person (a man in this case) who will continue with this tradition.
Happens with farm kids all the time. If no kids want to continue the land is often sold or just rented out.
One of the "world's oldest continuously ongoing independent company" [0] also hails from Japan, although it became a subsidiary of another company awhile back
It is simply amazing that a company has survived for so long. How have they managed to maintain revenue, maintain a culture, manage tremendous social and political change for centuries??
They were a temple repair company. It's steady work that hasn't changed a lot (everyone respects the temples - there are monasteries in Europe of comparable age to this company, but they were maintained by monks or "ordinary" builders), and not an easy market for outsiders to break into.
"Until 2011, it held the record for being the oldest hotel in the world."
I wondered what happened in 2011
This confused me, too. The record officials must have discovered an older hotel?
Nishiyama Onsen Keiunkan hotel somehow proved they were older. (Founded in 705, run by the same family for 52 generations.)
Tofugu has a nice article about the centuries old establishments in Japan: http://www.tofugu.com/2014/10/28/over-a-thousand-years-of-se...
Yep. They discovered another one in Japan that was founded circa 700 AD.
The daughter seems to be very depressed and clearly isn't intending on continuing this tradition.
There is an anime about her very situation. It's called 花咲くいろは (Hanasaku Iroha). It's pretty interesting if you don't have any familiarity with traditional Japanese inns. Be warned: PA Works (the studio that created it) likes drama!
A nice look into how it might feel to be connected to a tradition many generations old. Must feel suffocating.
Sadly, even though she may show signs of not intending to continue the tradition, familial and societal pressure will force her to marry someone willing to take on the family name and carry on in the capacity of the owner and head of household. The history and prestige behind a 1,300 year old ryokan will outweigh a daughter's feelings about her marriage and future life.
Strangely a comment by the filmographer indicates that not only is she not being forced to marry someone but in fact the father has decided that the best thing for the Hotel is to appoint his daughter as a successor.
The inn's English homepage: http://www.ho-shi.co.jp/jiten/Houshi_E/home.htm
Rates start from Y9900/person (~US$83) for a midweek stay with two meals, although better rooms and meals can cost considerably more.
Reviews seem a bit mediocre though: this is a large ryokan geared for large groups, and not particularly luxurious as far as these things go.
Please use Netscape Navigator and the Shockwave plug-in to see this site in its full majesty
Realize you're talking about a 15 year span on a 1,300 year one. The changes we're seeing in media technology are a distraction for this company. It may well long outlast the Web.
Until 19th century promulgation of corporations mainly families, governments and religions could own property. The corporation allowed large groups of unrelated people to own property and pass it it on to new managers and owners. This filled the gap of having organization between the size of a small[family]business and a local government.
Of course there are isolated examples of corporations before the 19th century, but they tended to be the exception until the legal system got the property rights thing down. Governments were stingy granting corporate charters or long lifetimes.
Genuinely curious:
Why did you choose to show a negative angle? For example, without context: 1) the father sounds macho, 2) the wife appears to have never been in love, 3) the girl is entirely unhappy.
Did they approve this final version?
I honestly didn't want to be it negative, but here's the thing:
the story is what it is.
I would loved for it to be more positive, but the state I interviewed them in, everything seemed gloomy. There's even a line from the father, which I cut, where he says it like: "For Houshi, there has never been a worse time than this". this includes the many natural disasters they faced, when the entire ryokan went up in flames or when half the family went to war and they became some sort of hospital for the army's soldiers instead of a hotel.
This particular moment I captured now is indeed quite negative, hence the story feels like that. But it is the Houshi of that moment. If I would make it more positive with the material I got, I would feel that I betray them or fake the story. And going from the interviews, there are rarely any positive statements. I even ended my last interview with the daughter saying: "everything you told me was so negative... I want the film to end on a positive note. Can you tell me something positive?" She contemplated for a while and then said two funny things. How she practices the Shamisen with her mother and feels like she is much better than her but would never say that. And also how she likes western style hotels much more than japanese style ryokan. But for several reasons, I couldn't use those lines.
1) the father's not macho, it's actually quite complex. as I said before, the family, and him in particular, have a very different understanding of what "family" is. There's no difference between family and business to him. Both are the same thing. It's easy for us to judge that, but it's how he was raised and his father before him. It's the way they walk. It's a cultural difference.
It took me a while to understand that and to accept his way. I tried to show and explain his situation in the film, why he's doing what he's doing, so others might understand. His only purpose in life is to keep the ryokan. Or else he alone would fuck up the entire history of the family. It's a big weight to carry, most of us can't even begin to comprehend.
that being said, he really was unbelievable sad when his son died. He is also a father, and not a monster. He's more a dutiful samurai.
2) yes and she never expected it. the wife is really obedient, she accepted her fate a long time ago and never asked for more. we might not like it, but that's how she is.
3) not entirely unhappy. the interview with her was her first chance to vent and to talk about some issues that she couldn't talk about with her parents or her friends in a long time. she is indeed quite lonely, so it was very emotional. She cried several times during the interview but I didn't want to embarass her like that by actually showing it. However, there are things she enjoys and finds happiness in. She travels to Tokyo once a month to visit friends, she also loves her small dog. There's also a second daughter, who's married with kids, and she enjoys spending time with them. And despite all, she loves and admires her parents dearly. Or else she wouldn't have come back. And as I said above, the interview was made in April and she is doing much better now.
a big theme of the film is the flow of time and the changes they bring. Houshi is always in motion. This film shows also just a moment in their long history, and it happens to be a very decisive one. When I traveled there, I didn't know about the whole situation. The film as it is, was the story unfolding to me.
Let me end with a quote from Zengoro:
"It’s not about choosing family or this ryokan. The most important thing is, to keep this 1300 years old family business. You would say we are in the bottom of the situation but some ancestors also thought their ages were in the bottom. So people don’t notice when things are going well, then there is already some sign of going downhill. And when you noticed that it’s going worse, things are already working towards a good way again."
Of course this is helped by the Asian valuing of ancestry. A families can be traced back two thousand years to when Chinese states were being established. (And some of these records were destroyed forever by communist excesses that did not value them.) Europe went through a period (400AD-800AD) were ancestry record keeping was not valued or done and continuity was lost.
I hope they find someone to adopt or marry who will care for this hotel.
As someone else pointed out, the daughter seems to be sad. I hope she is able to find someone to make her happy and is able to let her do what makes her happy.
Anyone having good luck watching the video? I have tried all 3 major browsers and none are buffering and playing the media seamlessly. Maybe it's Vimeo's player that is bad.
Vimeo has had trouble with click to play flashblock for years.
I keep one browser without flashblock for vimeo and soundcloud mainly.
Just watched it in FF 34.0 without issues. Buffered fast too :/
youtube-dl FTFW.