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Hey everyone, Sam Patterson from OpenBazaar and OB1 here. We're excited about this funding, and I'm happy to take any questions you might have.
We're always looking for developers on the project as well. It's open source, and primarily python. Here's the repo:
https://github.com/OpenBazaar/OpenBazaar
We have a particular interest in folks with p2p networking knowledge, but welcome devs with any background.
Is it expected that most of the goods and services sold on OpenBazaar will be illegal, as is the situation with Tor and I2P?
If it's completely decentralised, presumably there is nothing to stop that?
What incentives are there for legitimate business to sell on OpenBazaar, as opposed to remaining on 'traditional' web channels (e.g. their own websites, Amazon).
It is not expected that most goods will be illegal, we anticipate that it will be reflective of society at large - mostly legal with a small proportion doing illicit things.
> What incentives are there for legitimate business to sell on OpenBazaar, as opposed to remaining on 'traditional' web channels (e.g. their own websites, Amazon).
Traditional marketplaces take a cut of the transactions, and monitor the data of their users. A decentralized marketplace has no middleman to take a cut or monitor the data. It's removing an intermediary entirely; trade is directly between the buyer and seller (with a voluntarily chosen third party, if they so chose).
Is there any way for buyers to verify the authenticity of legitimate sellers on the marketplace? If so, is it purely a 'buyer feedback' system?
According to the website there is a web of trust to establish reputation and you can set up voting pools whose members are those you trust. So it is based on buyer feedback.
What's to prevent malicious sellers from creating fake positive buyer feedback?
Most trades have a buyer, a seller, and a third party arbiter. When an agreement is made the bitcoin goes into something like escrow. Any two of the three parties together can release the money. In a normal trade, when the buyer receives the product he OKs the transaction and the bitcoin is released to the seller. If the product is not delivered or isn't what was promised the buyer can appeal to the arbiter. The arbiter settles the dispute. The arbiter can also release the funds if the buyer fails to OK the transaction
I don't think an arbiter is strictly required so if a big name company enters the market you can probably avoid paying an arbiter. Generally though, in a ebay like situation you'll probably need to pick a trust worthy arbiter and pay them accordingly.
Considering eBay and Amazon fees, OpenBazaar might be quite disruptive.
what was the incentive for donating 1m if it's basically free, doesn't collect data, and is not centrally controlled?
The platform isn't centrally controlled, but that doesn't mean that companies can't offer services to users on the network.
It's similar to Bitcoin, which has no central control, but now has an ecosystem of businesses that support Bitcoin users.
Our goal with OB1 is to build the OpenBazaar network and gain large adoption, and then offer those users services (such as dispute resolution, store hosting, search).
>> OB1 will aid decentralized commerce by offering services such as dispute resolution ...
Help me OB1, you're my only hope.
All of the investors are invested in other Bitcoin-related ventures. OpenBazaar has the potential to get people to actually spend Bitcoins, which people don't really do now. That then has the potential to increase Bitcoin's value, which will help their other Bitcoin-related investments.
For example, Andreessen Horowitz has invested quite a lot of money into Bitcoin mining operation, 21 Inc, who in turn have mined a lot of Bitcoin. If Bitcoin's price goes up, the value of 21 Inc's holdings go up.
>what was the incentive for donating 1m
BitTorrent received $41M in VC funding, and is free, does not collect data, and is not centrally controlled. They monetize through content distribution software integrations, business software, a search engine, and an ad supported Torrent client. I imagine OpenBazaar will monetize in similar ways.
Note: >to develop the OpenBazaar protocol and client, _and build the first business on top of the OpenBazaar network._
There are many opportunities where you can make money here. Think about an arbitrage service in case of a dispute. Or an escrow service. Or a reputation service maybe?
I think that the can be only One marketplace since it relies heavily on the network effect. For OB to be first and biggest is a big deal.
An easy way for them to make money is to follow https://Discourse.org or https://ghost.org biz model.
These are Open Source, but you can pay them to host for you.
My friend is working on this, https://provistor.com/ check it out
So, does this mean enough resources now to get OpenBazaar working on Tor ?? (an open network that helps defend against network surveillance that harms personal freedom and privacy, confidential business activities and associations)
Or, does this money mean that is never going to happen and those of us who care should fork off the MIT license and/or watch other projects?
Not sure why anyone would invest in this which is strange because if Andreeson is investing you would think it would be obvious as to why, but this one I just dont get. After all the drama with SR, sure you can piggy back off of that hype and user base, but your biggest problem is going to be getting away from the stigma of being an underground marketplace. I would be staying as far away from the "police-free" marketing terms as possible, seems like startup suicide if you ask me. Maybe im not seeing something though, as the founders and investors are clearly smart people.
We are absolutely not using terms like "police-free". Others have labelled us as such. We view this as an agnostic protocol that people can use to trade goods and services online with each other, with no fees, and it's coupled with a marketplace that no one centrally controls. It's not Silk Road 3.0, it's ecommerce 2.0.
For more information on what investors are thinking, reach USV's Brad Burnham discussing why they invested in us:
https://www.usv.com/post/5579998c8711930003901f5f/introducin...
Agnostic is a great term to use here. "We are not police free we are just agnostic towards them while building a system that will almost completely undermine all of their techniques for law enforcement."
But I'm glad to see you guys have at least thought through how you're going to avoid the SR stigma while pretty much building SR on steroids. And I'm not being sarcastic, I actually do think that's important and look forward to seeing this gig succeed.
Call it however you like, agnostic protocal etc, the fact still remains your going to have ALOT of work to do differentiating yourself from SR and the stigma that comes along with using bitcoin as a currency, especially when media are already using phrases like "police-free" and "sell ANYTHING"...
Maybe brainstorm around:
-"We are like Amazon (or maybe craigslist?), but for bitcoins!" -Require social login. If you truly arent an anonymous marketplace using an untrackable cryptocurrency as method of payment, then requiring social login will be a good way to show the government that you mean it.
Point im making, OpenBazaar definitely has its work cut out for them. Exciting nonetheless, keep us posted!!!
-Jami Frazier
The phrases "decentralized" and "require social login" are mutually exclusive.
Not necessarily. The network itself can be decentralized and anonymous, but the company could use identity services as a monetization technique on top of (as a subset of transactions on) the network.
Hash pipe in the documentation is nod-and-a-wink.
You should really watch this talk by Ben Horowitz [1]. The takeaway here is that they look to explore "good ideas that look like bad ideas," and he goes on to talk about Air BnB and some other companies.
I bet this is one of those types of investments -- it is actually a good idea but looks like a bad idea right now (by conventional wisdom).
[1] - http://a16z.com/2014/11/12/how-can-large-companies-innovate/
If openbazaar succeeds in creating a robust decentralised platform for trade, the portion of black market transactions done in bitcoin will grow significantly, and anyone holding bitcoin (eg. a16z) will get big returns.
The black market is already well established on Tor, so I'm not sure if OpenBazaar will result in growth in such markets, or just a shifting of some existing business from Tor to OpenBazaar.
It is well established, but plagued by issues relating to centralisation - exit scammers, law enforcement infiltrating markets, people stealing bitcoins. Each time this happens, growth is damped as buyers and sellers shuffle over to new operators. OpenBazaar would revolutionize this.
Given the wait time for BTC confirmation, could it be feasible to use the OpenBazaar network for "Download Now" type transactions, where the buyer's expectation is for more or less immediate gratification?