josephcsible

> one particular group of people I assume you mean the OSI. But it's not just them with a problem with the SSPL. Debian and Fedora both reject it too, independently, for being non-free.

The hostility comes from people who wanted to abuse the loophole that it closes, and/or from people who bought into their FUD.

The FSF and other similar organizations have lawyers too. What do you think their opinion is?

I agree with the substance of what you said, but I'm going to nitpick a bit of wording: what you call "developer freedom" isn't freedom at all, and is more rightly called power. h…

A license doesn't get to be called open source just because it's popular. Look how popular Windows is. Is it open source too?

> Grafana could have thrown its weight behind SSPL and helped legitimize it more. Which would not have been a good thing in any way, so I'm glad they didn't do that.

> AGPL and SSPL are basically the same Are you serious? Once you look past the most superficial level, they're not even close.

What's your definition of software freedom exactly?

I think you misunderstand the ZFS-on-Linux situation. The problem with that is that ZFS is licensed under the CDDL, and Linux is licensed under the GPL, both of which are FOSS licenses, but there'…

Why? If your software is already all available under permissive licenses, what does Grafana's new license require of you that you weren't already doing?

> I think it's both a completely unrealistic end goal I know :( I just meant it's the ideal we should strive towards, even if we never fully reach it.

> My gut feeling is that those passionate about open source on the whole will tend to prefer AGPLv3, while businesses or those making decisions on the behalf of a business, may prefer BUSL-1.1. You…

It sounds like Confluent doesn't get what the real problem is. There's 2 ways developers who also sell hosting end up losing all their market share to players like Amazon: 1. The big players…

IMO, the ideal end-state from a software freedom perspective is that all software becomes AGPL. This change is a step in that direction, not only with the directly affected products, but for the reaso…

I wish people would stop equating what Grafana did with what Elastic did. Grafana switched from one FOSS license to another. Elastic switched from a FOSS license to a proprietary license.

A company giving its own employees access to software for work use only doesn't count as distribution, but giving it to contractors can: http://www.gnu.org/licenses/gpl-faq.e…

Unlike ElasticSearch, Grafana itself is still open-source. Forking Grafana would be viewed a lot less favorably than forking ElasticSearch was.

If the Timescale License is less restrictive than AGPL, then why not dual-license your product under the Timescale License and AGPL? Wouldn't that give everyone the best of both worlds?

> I remember when the AGPL was being talked about in around 2008 or so, and thinking it was ludicrous. Now I wonder if it's too lenient. It'd be really hard to come up with a license less…

This has nothing to do with CLAs. The old license was Apache 2, which is compatible with AGPLv3 (although the converse is not true). You'd only need a CLA to relicense if it weren't compatib…

You'll need to give your customers the source code you used to build Grafana. If your customers are just using it internally, then they have no new obligations. If they're letting customers …

True, but my point wasn't so much about the likelihood of a fork as whether or not it would be a good thing.

This seems to lump relicensing to better FOSS licenses like AGPL in with relicensing to bad non-FOSS licenses like the Commons Clause, SSPL, BSL, Redis Source Available License, and Anti-996 License. …

How is it debated whether AGPL is open source? Who says it isn't?

They'd have to offer the source code to Grafana itself, which has basically negligible effect since it doesn't have anything of theirs in it.

What is your code? A fork of Grafana? Plugins for it? Or something else?

Amazon forking ElasticSearch to keep its old license is a good thing, since ElasticSearch's new license is a proprietary visible-source license. Grafana's new license is still FOSS, so it&#x…

Is there a specific conflict like ZFS-on-Linux that you want to avoid, or are you just asking "how can I most benefit from other people's work without letting anyone else benefit from mine?&…

> Couldn't you hash some obvious variants of the new password to test against? This is impractical if you're following good password storage practices. Assume the user's new password…

You can't stop someone's next password from being a variant of their next-to-last one unless you store them unhashed.